I applaud this wonderful highsec nerf, its just as we discussed at our last lobbying session.

Sure you do. All of them soon.

I was just kidding really. I don't see the sky falling down with this.

A lot of the discussion in the dev post is positive towards the few changes announced so far.

Never really got the whole "Goonspiracy" thing, on how goons somehow "control" CCP.

It's weird cognitive dissonance. On one hand, our local conspiracy buffs will tell us that goons have so much powers over CCP, because with a snap of the finger, Mittens can force all goons to quit Eve, which would cost CCP all their revenue....

Yet, on the other side, CCP should never ever make changes to highsec, because the vast majority of players live in highsec and changes that benefit null are worthless to most players etc.

I mean, which is it?

It's lovely how you can square the playerbase in such precise brackets:

- Hi sec player for you (and not just you) = a poor moron who should possibly die in a fire ASAP. No knowledge of the game, no passion he's just playing EvE by random chance, in between of WoW PvE sessions. He's also a nerd, 15 old and he'll become a red neck.

- Null sec: divinity incarnated with passion and vast knowledge of thegame. Tall, blonde, and blue eyed, bound to become an Hollywood personality, girls fall on their knees as he passes by.



Did I picture it well enough?


It never occurs to you that maybe the "random hi seccer noob-should-defintely-die-young" maybe is a 3 children father who actually got a life so he has to put those as top priority instead of showing "heroic devotion"?


Now, please return to your "CODE" and spew some more verdicts on macro-categories. It fits with the organization.

I'm interested in seeing just how much more industry this change kicks up, across all secs. Minerals are almost like a psuedo currency in EVE, so anything that makes moving minerals around is going to encourage more use.

It'd be funny if the mineral market got even stronger, due to ease of moving mins to null for supercap construction. Grrr, those evil nullsec cartels, making things better for people. Grr I say!

I have no arguments to prop up.

In ANY CASE I shall make massive money, either on the likes of her, on miners and on you.

Also, I have always voted people who are estimated, famous EvE software creators and they know EvE well enough to have reverse engineered the formulas so STFU with your own BS propaganda.

It's not because "nullsec" are more qualified or anything, it's just demographics that CCP runs and found out which playerbase to push. It's not grand player qualities like you delude yourself a category got, but large number law of paying subscribers fidelization and other marketing department material.

CCP means Crowd Control Production and you are exactly their ideal target.

Going by your reasoning Punkturis should not even be remotely qualified to be a Eve Dev due to the above statement.

(Dislamimer: I have no knowledge of Punturis' previous experience and i would expect that she was employed based upon merit rather than knowledge of the game and having played it previously).

Cheers,

AA

Noone's actually making that assumption. They're making fun of Dinsdale's bad logic and insane 'highsec vs. nullsec' conspiracy theories. Noone reasonable believes in 'highsec vs. nullsec'. This thread is not at all serious.

Well played mate GF

My point still stands though

Unlike others i can accept being trolled...BTW you hide the green fur well, how much does the waxing cost you?

The only reason you 'accept' this is because you know it won't really be more than an slight inconvienence to you.... To a mission runner with a certain playstyle this essentially means the end of his/her playstyle. Which is not inherently a bad deal, I don't think this will make a huge impact on missioning as a whole, most of the good income for me has come from selling meta modules and LP.

*Snip*

Supporting changes has nothing to do with a narrative or wanting to hurt high sec and everything with wanting to make the game better. If thats unacceptable to you that in the overall attempt to make the game better your particular playstyle has to change a bit, well, tough ****. Our playstyles change near constantly because the game gets changed for the better, welcome to the life of every other player in EVE.

Not really no. For every change there is more and more evidence that what is good for the game is not something everyone can agree on.

And relevantly, he was free to disagree and had reasoning for doing so. You don't agree with a number of people on what is best for the game, but they may well be just as sure of their positions as you are about unrestricted drone assist.

Dunno, after reading grath's article and posts on the subject, I'm inclined to believe otherwise in his case, but I can certainly say accusations of crying aren't doing much to sway me.

It will kill the reprocessing profession.

And for no real reason at all.

heh what ever you say lady. Go read up on self correcting economies then come back and tell us what they HAD TO do.

By setting the obvious best place in sov null sec:

- they falsely set the objective to an area which is NOT where the highest risk is.

- they set the objective. It becomes "just in the natural order of things" to need to move towards the "best place".

Since you talk about "people playing inefficently"... blitzing L4 is the efficient path and you label who does not follow it as inefficient.

So, how do you label those who won't want to move to null sec to get the best efficiency?

The next meme will be: "lol dude go SOV null sec else you are playing wrong".

And there you go, you just achieved the theme park, the canned path, the anti-EvE.


If only sov null sec even deserved the best efficiency. No, there are riskier places but no, sov players are using their political influence to brainwash everybody into thinking THEY have to have the best rewards despite others live in more dangerous places AND also have to play organized like they do.

The voices, man. They speak to me.

You know, it is a pretty simple equation.
If I am insane, and my posts are the ravings of a madman, then why don't you sadly shake your head at the loon, and ignore the entire thread, instead of constantly opposing me and insulting me?

I would think ignoring a thread should hasten it's passage from the 1st page of threads.

Yet here you are, adding to 30 some odd pages of intense arguments.

Maybe, just maybe, you realize that perhaps you have to add your voice to the mod to discredit me. otherwise some people on the fence might just decide "hey, Dinsdale is right, and CCP and the cartels are out to wreck the high sec, the incubator and home to the largest segment of the player base".

You mean encouraging PVP in what is supposed to be the region of Elite PVP? Or does PVP only count when there is a Timer on a Structure and Mittens sends a Jabber Ping out to the CFC? I suppose this explains why CFC space is so empty from Tenal to Period Basis. Or maybe its the massive PASSIVE income generated by MoonGoo that means pilots don't need to be out in space making ISK, because all their stuff is paid for by moons mined automatically by a POS.

There is no risk if you have a security force baby sitting you. Lucas was exactly correct on how you combat a pirate threat thus no risk. Heck even less risk then doing the EXACT same thing in LS, or even HS.

"Hey guys PVP in the PVP region is bad mmkay! Let us mine our moongoo in peace."

The reward is equal mining is 272% more Isk/m3 in Null sec than it is in highsec.

Once again commenting on the lack of reward is ridiculous. Nullsec is more isk effective than everything in HS. The only reason people don't do it, is because they do not need to do it. Passive MoonGoo pays their way, they don't need to worry about Isk unless they are plexing their accounts, and said isk is easily earned through the much more isk efficient Ratting/Plexing/Anom running available in Nullsec.

If CCP truly wanted to increase Nullsec mining/production, they would nerf Moons into oblivion. Or flip said moons with the ones in Lowsec, as it should be considering risk/reward and all that.

It pays so their members don't need to. Passively.

It most certainly does.

I didn't say they covered their whole SRP I said it provides into it PASSIVELY so their members don't have to. Thus they don't NEED to use the space they have/

Do you not know what the word passive means? Or just a hard time with basic English?

certainly passive income sources need to be restrained. What kind of empire should be allowed to exist that does no real work on it's own infrastructure?

Hows about a middle road, and make Moon mining look a lot like PI, with active management of cycles yeilding a lot better results.... actually, how about just making moon mining into a specialized segment of PI period

Let's get this Framed folks.... the New Order, DEFENDING passive gameplay.... good ******* ****!!!!

MMMHHHMMM..... excuses.

Whatever your defense, having moon mining as a specialization part of Planetary Interaction, 1.) makes a whole lot more ******* sense than what it is currently. and 2.) Would be a ******* **** ton more interesting!

SRP is not a necessary expense. It is an optional expense in place so pilots don't have to PVE to replace ships.

Player owned Customs offices can now be attacked and Destroyed...

and a patient Covert Ops cloak gang could ambush and take the whole pinata when the Sov owners docked up at the Moon Customs office to get their ****!!!!

AKA a HELLUVA lot more reason to be active in Nullsec!! Hell, even an enterprising Solo pilot could Ninja a **** ton of profit from a nullsec alliance that got too complacent.

Its not if you held space proportionate to what you can maintain. SRP allows groups to hold far more space then they would be otherwise capable of holding, and its backbone is passive income.

[
Half the alliances in CFC and N3 would not be sov holding alliances if it were not for the combined pools of SRP. Moongoo and PI mechanics are poor for the game, allowing people to generate income by not playing is bad design, and is the reason that entities like CFC and N3 exist. But keep trying to deny this. It is humourous.

Fruitless arguing someone who is clearly unable to hold a conversation. Moongoo mining is ok guys Goons told us so nothing to see here. Its funny when nullsec apologists go to endless lengths to defend their poorly designed income streams, while telling us all how the game will be so much better off when HS and LS income streams get nerfed.

"Drone assist fleets are bad guys they don't let people push F1 on their own, but Moongoo and PI are good passive mechanics because they let alliances hold more space then they reasonably could other wise!"

you need better talking points friend.

Never said you were a goon, and you don't need to live in nullsec to be a nullsec apologist. There is no reason for passive income to exist on the level it does (and mining is not passive sorry). Supporting making income while off line and not playing is quite comical.

They could flood null sec with money, it would still be grabbed by the alliance brass and "stored" whereas the grunts would still spend years crying high injustice against everybody (except their brass of course) on the forums.

It's an old thing, null sec is made to provide copious amounts of money from the top down, but the "top" only let it trickle it down.

You'll forever demand more money, never noticing how when a big alliance dies (that is, they lost, that is they are passing the worst moment) it still gets found out how they had huge mounds of billions worth of stuff given to directors to "hold".

Whereas other, living in locations deserving more income (like Wormholes), don't even have the spoiled child luxury of having NPC granted instant intel.

Yes, mindlessly killing the same pointless NPC a billion times like in other MMOs is soooooo much better.

does an elected representative have a mandate to represent the non-voting population

why the hell does this matter anyway

oh christ on a bike this derail began with 'let's assume a csm is leaking info because because, guys'

how about the insane idiot who made that claim proves it before we start demanding anyone proves anything

OH RIGHT IT WAS DINSDALE

You claim that the CSM, which was elected by only 14%, of the population CAN represent the entirety of the population.

Prove it.

I see no proof anywhere.

Nowhere have you proven that a body elected by only 14% of the population, CAN represent the entirety of the population.

Im not implying anything. You are the one deriving implications.

I asked for proof that a body elected by 14% of the population to represent them, CAN represent the entirety of the population.
There is no implication there. Its simply a request for proof of her claim.

Nobody can claim to represent me, who I have not empowered to do so.

The means whereby I would empower them is formally by voting, or informally by acknowledging that that person is empowered by me to represent my interests.

Nobody can claim to represent me without my explicit consent.

As long as I with-hold that consent. it cannot be said that the CSM CAN ever be fully representative of the entirety of EVEs population.

figuratively

and now, the mighty ISD Ezwal shall slumber.
i still don't think its that big of a deal. really.

Why?

Sorry, we are not allowed to discuss moderation, or I would have some very choice words about the intent of this moderation.

Let me see if I've got this straight...

So this style of game play, reprocessing these assets to resources - which you state is LESS INCOME - takes a hit and this is good?

A large portion of mission runners have been using this reprocessing as a source of income - you state it's a poor source of income. This change will remove it as viable to many... That converts play to clear and blitz styles for pure faucet income.

How is pushing people to stop relying on lesser income sources in highsec over to cookie-cutter, faucet income a good thing for *ANYONE* in the game?

I always assumed more focus on wealth transfer and sinks vs faucet income was a good thing. Silly me.

Yes let's force players to stop wasting their time paying processing and sales fees vs just getting at those bounties and mission payouts! It'll be the best thing for the economy!

21 pages deleted from 45 .

That break is well deserved .

hot


When i saw he was going to clean the thread I reported his post saying 'you'll need to sweep 30 pages off, not even Hercules could clean this'.

Hercules was merely a demigod, Ezwal is ISD

Well, I guess I was late to the show then .

Tell that to the incursion community that I was in that died after the Paladin's web bonus was removed.

Sometimes conspiracy is a good source of inspiration. I'm going to suggest that our CSM representitives make it their mission to make CCP bring in only changes that will directly affect Dinsdale in a negative way.

Yeah, a Sandbox also should support those MSOrpg players ...

in city of heroes arenas were only used for erotic roleplay

Who gives a damn, what missioning needs is some fresh gameplay.... and to NOT have to do the same ******* thing over and over and over again.

They need some real, dynamic, gameplay mechanic changes to missions.

The problem with EVE is too many people are afraid of changing anything, so we have a 'status quo' of gameplay that is disgustingly outdated!

Sandbox, EVE is about whatever CCP puts in the sandbox, and PVE is a ******* huge part friend

Mining and industry serve as the foundation of the economy.

and as you said, missioning is the 'living wage'

So it is most definitely NOT wasted content... except in how archaic and boring the mechanics are

But to be fair, it is true.

Well if not the economy would be borked.

Either miners or mission runners would need to supply the minerals, niether seem overly popular lol

Thanks for the heads up. Since I do dabble in the building industry, I guess I should hit the dev blogs and see what's in the pipe.

Mr Epeen

Prices all across new eden went up...

Back onto the real topic. Any blitzing missioner who used the salvaging corps services will see a significant hit to their income as will anyone who ran an alt to salvage. So it is fair to say that missioners are going to have a significant cut to their income on this, and this entire change is purely a null sec buff in ways that aren't needed, and in ways that disadvantage high sec the same way null has been complaining about for years, except by order of magnitudes greater disadvantage.

Basically it's fine when Null wins, but high sec can never win according to them.

The base principle of the changes to make skill matter however, is a good thing. It's just the ratio's are bad.

yeah, well missioning has needed new gameplay mechanics since THE BEGINNING OF EVE, we have never gotten anything substantially interesting....

And no one complains about it enough.

We will have to see. Or CCP could simply release the numbers on how much minerals are put into the server through loot mining. Based on old numbers and simply using the % changes to drops since the last CCP numbers and is likely around 25-30% of all mineral consumption in EVE, down from the roughly 45-50% it once was.

You don't seriously think that mining produces the most minerals do you? It might make up the most Trit and Pyrite, but it certainly doesn't hold a candle to the demands of Zydrine, Mexallon, Megacyte and Noxium.


This nerf would essentially remove 12-15% of all minerals from the game specifically the mid - high end minerals required for all production.

Or do you believe that suddenly miners will see that LS and NS mining are worth the isk, despite them always being more profitable places to mine, but much much riskier to do so. I doubt that any miners are going to be jumping onto the LS/NS mining market anytime soon.

Neither of which have anything to do with the actual profession of missioning, which is as you said previously the 'living wage' of EVE....

As in the CORE of missioning, needs a complete overhaul, not just tertiary distractions.

In the main thread on the reprocessing a single industrialist proved the maths that he could recover that initial capital investment in less than three months SOLO thanks to the advantages it gives. Across an alliance that capital investment is trivial. It also has zero costs per month. Sov bills are for the system, not for the outpost, and it costs you nothing more to have an outpost in the system. Additionally you already get massive benefits for having Sov. And those trillions in ship costs are also all about Sov, not outposts.

Stop trying to pretend like the costs matter.

Massive long term advantage for relatively minuscule initial capital investment.
I'm sorry but it doesn't balance out. The costs do not justify the proposed advantage.

True. They justify far bigger onesGǪ but then we haven't really gotten to a proper industry revamp yet so more is probably to come.

I do. A significant proportion of hi sec mission runners gain income from loot & salvage in some way. Some do it themselves, some only loot the more valuable wrecks, some contract out to corporations like Pro Synergy.

LOL. What risks are you taking by manufacturing in an outpost rather than Jita?

You will be drowned out by the cartel propagandists who don't want those inconvenient facts to gain any traction.

Because not everyone wants to be an F1 goon lemming?

Looking at their forum posts....
Looking at Mittani....
Looking at wide support for E1....

I don't see any reasons to meet them closer.

congratulations. you are right here.

It's like RL terrorists or USA soldiers: they can be really nice and cool people. And maybe it would be great to be in their team.
But it just happens that every time you meet them you are their target.

The same with goons in Eve: most of players only see bad side of them. And it is not other people's fail. When you only nice to your teammates don't blame others for hate towards you.

Pretty sure their mission is to ruin *our* game, not *the* game.

*) 'Carebears' are only the select group of players, who cannot separate the game from reality, makes death threats *and* who only ever act selfishly? IE. a player can in your world view be 100% PvE focused, while only ever staying in HiSec, yet still they are *not* a 'carebear'?